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  Transcript

Cancer Electrotherapy Chat
between Jay Kulsh & Dr. Robert O Becker

(Certain salient portions of this conversation -- 8 min 45 sec. -- have been highlighted.)

Jay Kulsh:  This is Dr. Becker?

Dr. Becker: ..Speaking

Jay Kulsh:  Dr. Becker, my name is Jay Kulsh and I am calling you from Los Angeles.

Dr. Becker: ..Yes?

Jay Kulsh: ...About 2 weeks ago I sent you a letter by priority mail.

Dr. Becker:  I do not have time to answer mail.

Jay Kulsh:  Did you read that letter?

Dr. Becker:  I doubt if I did. ..I just don't recall. ..I get an enormous amount of mail. It is impossible for me ..uh.. no assistance... What can I do for you?.

Jay Kulsh:  Well, ..it was just one page letter...

Dr. Becker:  Tell me what it is?

Jay Kulsh:  It was about DC electrotherapy and cancer. You write about that in your book "Cross Currents."

Dr. Becker:  Yeah... What can I tell you?

Jay Kulsh:  Well.. I mean.. best way I could do was to write that one page letter.. I cannot describe same thing...um....orally. ..You think you might find that letter?

Dr. Becker: ..I doubt very ...very ...very much. I get an enormous amount of mail...

Jay Kulsh:  Let me just say this then...

Dr. Becker: ...Tell me what it is?

Jay Kulsh:  At the end of electrotherapy discussion for cancer.. in your book, you say that.. there is something missing here and.. we need a more sophisticated approach to understand this phenomenon... because some people did get cured.. 200 years ago by lightening and things like that... I wanted to tell you that in fact it is possible to have a more sophisticated approach if we talk about an enzyme which is very essential for cell growth... and so that is what I wanted to talk...

Dr. Becker: ..OK..

Jay Kulsh:  ..But you don't have time?

Dr. Becker: ..Well, I will give you couple of minutes right now. ...You got me on the telephone... Go ahead.

Jay Kulsh:  Well, my point is that.. are you still involved in research? Or have you abandoned...

Dr. Becker: ..I have not been doing research in this area since 1980..

Jay Kulsh:  Unh hun

Dr. Becker: ...I lost all of my research grants.. because I said things which were not very popular with the Federal Government. And that was that!

Jay Kulsh:  Unh hun

Dr. Becker: ..So I have not done anything in this area since 1980. When I have time, I try to keep ahead of what is happening in the field... and I know that there is work going on.... but I am not involved in it.

Jay Kulsh:  Well, I just wanted to tell you that there is an enzyme by the name ribonucleotide reductase. It is the rate-limiting enzyme for DNA synthesis. ...

Dr. Becker: ..Unh

Jay Kulsh:  It has a very unique active-site which has a free-radical there....and if you pass DC electric current at a certain low-level... a few milli-ampere... then it is possible.. most likely to knock it out or ...to change that radical into an anion. That way you deactivate that enzyme and if you do so then, you know, it is not possible for cells to grow. .and in fact, many chemotherapeutic drugs are aimed at this enzyme. ..so that is the explanation.

Dr. Becker: ..Has any work been done directly on .. involving  that enzyme?

Jay Kulsh:  In terms of cancer, you mean?

Dr. Becker: ..Yeah

Jay Kulsh:  Of course, enzyme is...

Dr. Becker:  ..OK... Has this been done in vitro?

Jay Kulsh:  Only in vi... in fact chemotherapeutic drugs are tested in vitro. And experiments are needed in vivo in fact ..with DC electric current.

Dr. Becker: ..You get deactivation in vitro?

Jay Kulsh:  Yeah, sure in... the thing is that ... the connection between the two has not been made. That is what I am saying something new.

Dr. Becker: ..Yeah.. well ...I can understand what you are saying. I think that you are absolutely correct in that regard. It ought to be looked at...

Jay Kulsh: I was wondering if you can suggest any person who might be doing in vivo experiments. I know some doctors... I think.. in New Orleans.. that you were connected with ...Dr. Marino... names like that...

Dr. Becker:  No, he is in Shreveport... not in New Orleans... Shreveport, Louisiana.

Jay Kulsh:  Right, right.. Is there any other...?

Dr. Becker: ..I don't believe that he is doing anything along those lines... but I have not had any correspondence with him in quite a while...

Jay Kulsh:  The last article I read by him was in 1992 and...he used, you know, DC currents to treat tumors but he used totally different... I mean, wrong... set of parameters. He used very high level of current... more than, I think, 10 milli-ampere...

Dr. Becker:  Quite a few people would do that... and obviously you will kill a tumor that way but you are going to kill anything that way.

Jay Kulsh:  Yeah... but..  in fact his results were rather discouraging because if you look at the previous papers, they got much better results with lower milli-ampere and... used the voltage much lower than what he was using... he was using, I think, 15 to 20 voltage.

Dr. Becker:  There is also another doctor.. I can't remember his first name --Nordenstrom!

Jay Kulsh:  ..But his approach is totally different... -- the Swedish doctor?

Dr. Becker:  Yeah.

Jay Kulsh:  ...My main contention is -- it is not electrolysis or electrochemical reaction that you need...

Dr. Becker:  Unh hun..

Jay Kulsh:  You just need to knock off this free-radical, and all you need are some free-floating electrons in the medium...

Dr. Becker: Unh hun..

Jay Kulsh:  That's all there is need of... And if use too high current or two high voltage, there will be some electrolysis which is undesirable.

Dr. Becker:  Hunh... No, no, I agree with you on that... but I don't know anyone who is using very low current and voltage.

Jay Kulsh:  Well.... initially those doctors like...  Dr. Humphrey who published paper in Science in 1959... and then Dr. Schauble of... I think they were from Vermont...  who published their paper in 1977. And you refer to these papers in your book "Cross Currents".

Dr. Becker:   Yeah...

Jay Kulsh:  And Dr. Schauble... I think she was using only 1.5 voltage and 3 milli-ampere... and she got one of the better results.

Dr. Becker:   Yeah, yea... but I don't know if that has been replicated.

Jay Kulsh:  In fact, that is what I wrote in my letter about. There was another paper in 1985 by some... five scientists from Canada and it was published in Cancer Research -- no obscure journal. And they used anywhere from 1 to 2.8 milli-ampere current ...and voltage being between 2 and 3 volts ...and they had up to 98% reduction in tumor mass, which was virtual cure...

Dr. Becker:   Unh hun..

Jay Kulsh:  But what is so unfortunate is -- none of these things have been followed up... because people don't know the underlying mechanism.

Dr. Becker:  Well, that's... that's probably correct... and also because unless you are capable of protecting with a patent application, the technology... it will never see the light of the day.

Jay Kulsh:  Yeah, nobody will... I mean.. no company will benefit from it since it is such an ordinary thing.

Dr. Becker:  That is correct. It would be... it would be, you know...  public... public information, public knowledge.

Jay Kulsh:  Yeah.

Dr. Becker:  And any company that decided that it would do some work along these lines... and got it through FDA, which is a very difficult thing to do, then they could open the market but anybody else...

Jay Kulsh:  ...can do it too...

Dr. Becker:  ...can do the same thing without spending all the money to go through the FDA. Hence nothing like this is going to happen.

Jay Kulsh:  You mean to say... I mean...  I like to think that cancer is not only a disease, it is also an industry...

Dr. Becker:  Well...

Jay Kulsh:  ...There is cancer research side and there is cancer treatment side....and you know, hundreds of thousands of people are making a living off it.

Dr. Becker:  It supports more people than it kills.

Jay Kulsh: (bursts into a laugh) Right, right....

Dr. Becker:  I agree with you completely. I don't know anything that can be done...

Jay Kulsh:  So you cannot even suggest a name... I am thinking of writing, you know, to National Cancer Institute and see if they react at all.

Dr. Becker:  Well, that is something you can do... certainly. ...I don't know what kind of response you will get from this. I really could not answer this.

Jay Kulsh:  Unh hun.

Dr. Becker:  My expectations would be that your response would be negative but I can't say.

Jay Kulsh:  All right. Thank you for your time.

Dr. Becker:  OK, very good! I hope you've lots of luck.

Jay Kulsh:  OK.

Dr. BeckerBye-bye.

Jay Kulsh:  Thanks.

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